What UNC athletic director Bubba Cunningham had to say about school’s shoe scandal

On Aug. 7, a day after North Carolina announced it was suspending 13 players for selling school-issued sneakers, The News & Observer sat down for a one-on-one interview with UNC athletic director Bubba Cunningham.

The interview covered a range of topics, including the players selling shoes. Here is a transcript of that portion of the interview:

Alexander: So you know you’ve had this shoe thing come up recently, and one of the things you mentioned is nine shoes have not been returned. Do you have to pay that back, or what is next with that?

Cunningham: No, no. Those were shoes that were sold to brokers outside the university. So I mean there were 15 students who were involved in it. And some were sold student to student and some were sold off-campus. The ones that were sold off-campus, we obviously didn’t get back.

Alexander: So those were the university’s …

Cunningham:Yeah, we bought the shoes as a university, gave them to the student, they sold them. Some were student to student, which are still here, so we pulled those back. But we had every student return all the shoes and staff. But nine of them left campus.

Alexander: Did it become theirs when you all gave it to them, or was it still school property? I think that was one thing that was unclear that a lot of people had questions about.

Cunningham: Well, it becomes theirs, because we expect you to wear it. Once you start wearing it, then the value goes to, basically it’s de minimis at that point. And so all their travel gear and things like that, they can keep, because it’s no value to anyone else.

Alexander: Was this like a group thing? It seemed like a lot of people were involved, and did you all ever find out if this was a group discussion, or particular individuals?

Cunningham: No, I think if you read the report…you realize it was a handful that had a relationship with the brokers, and then they were getting shoes from their teammates that could also be sold. So it started with just a small number and grew a little bit within the team.

Alexander: Do y’all plan to disassociate yourselves or write a dissociation letter with any of the brokers.

Cunningham: No.

Alexander: Because I saw in the report that it said they had dealt with Marquette and the University of Cal.

Cunningham: Yeah, they’re shoe brokers, just like any other broker or ticket broker or anybody else that has a legitimate business. But we didn’t feel that they were intentionally working against NCAA rules. They were offered to buy something and they bought it. Now had we felt like it was malicious or had some intent to break the rules or circumvent the rules then we may issue a disassociation letter, but we didn’t feel that way.

Alexander: I asked (head football coach) Larry (Fedora) this, and I think you were in the room when I asked him, but had you heard from any players whether they did this for financial reasons?

Cunningham: No. And I think Malik (Carney) did a fabulous job yesterday representing all the students that you know, it was kind of a weak moment, they know the rules, made a poor choice, and now we live with the consequences. But it wasn’t financially driven.

Alexander: Do you worry about that at all? I mean, kids come from all type of backgrounds. Some are in dire situations.

Cunningham: Yeah, if you want to talk about a pay-for-play model, I think that is a long discussion we can have, but providing shoes and clothing and food and money to get home for various events, I mean the NCAA has really broadened the rules in the last couple of years providing a lot more resources to students. Which we do. In this case, you can convert that benefit to cash, that becomes problematic. So we can provide a lot of things we could never provide before. But you cannot take that and then do something while you’re still competing. The rules are pretty clear on that.

Alexander: Did you all also look at whether anything else could have been sold among any of the other programs?

Cunningham: Oh yeah. And we watch all the time. We watch brokers. We look at Foot Locker. We look at retail stores, I mean, if we issue something that is readily available through retail and that shows up at retail, we have to chase that down too and we’ve done that from time to time. And every place I’ve ever worked, you’re always cognizant that you’re giving people something for them to use and some times they don’t, and there’s penalties associated with that.

Alexander: Just for clarity, because I don’t know, how often do you all get gear?

Cunningham: You know the vast majority of our students get it at the beginning of the school year. You come back to school, you get a new shipment or product, give everybody their gear for the year. Then other teams will hold it and say ok, well, we’re not going to give you the cold weather gear until it gets cold. We’re not going to give you the post-season gear until the post season. So you stagger some of it. Or stage some of it. But the vast majority is given when they arrive on campus.

Alexander: What do you all hope to take from this as a department. It happened not too long after you all wrapped up your investigation so what do you all kind of hope to learn and take from it.

Cunningham: Well, we just want to continue to educate our students and staff on what the rules are, what they can and can’t do and then make sure that people know if we violate a rule, there’s going to be accountability associated with it. And we have discipline from NCAA standpoint, from a university standpoint, from a department standpoint and from a team standpoint. So we try to encourage appropriate behavior, but when we don’t get there, then there’s punitive assessments after that happens.

Alexander: Do you expect any coaches to be disciplined for this?

Cunningham: Mmhmm (nods head).

Alexander: Can you say which?

Cunningham: No. We don’t talk about personnel issues, but that is part of it certainly.

This story was originally published August 21, 2018 at 11:46 AM with the headline "What UNC athletic director Bubba Cunningham had to say about school’s shoe scandal."